Curse

Turbobusa · Nov 14, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Why do you need meat shields when you have "Save Yourselves" and "TNTF" (plus also were foes don't leave corpses)? PvE skils are there for a reason.

LOL yeah my necro likes to wand to get 8 adrenaline.
Enough "PvE is easy, PvP is full of smartasses", it's boring and both are not true.

On topic, if there is no more necro healers, isn't the pet nerf overkill?
just asking don't jump on your high horses.

bungusmaximus · Nov 14, 2007, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

So bringing a MM is nobler than using overpowered PvE skills? Chivalry doesn't belong here. That's not an argument speaking for them. I'm not putting words in your mouth but considering what we have available you'd think twice to consider MMs as a valid and important template in nowadays PvE.

Then you didn't read my post well, because I do use paragons over MM's sometimes, I just skill them differently. As I said, my own problem. Paragon regular PvE skills are good enough. I only use paragon heroes anyway, so PvE skills are a no-no for me.

Moloch Vein · Nov 14, 2007, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

So bringing a MM is nobler than using overpowered PvE skills? Chivalry doesn't belong here. That's not an argument speaking for them. I'm not putting words in your mouth but considering what we have available you'd think twice to consider MMs as a valid and important template in nowadays PvE.

You are wrong for a number of reasons that I doubt you even think about.

All I need to mention is the synergy between precisely the minions dying and the energy return to yourself and any other necromancers on your team.

In fact minions have become more important to necromancers now that the /Rt combo has been more or less trashed.

arcanemacabre · Nov 14, 2007, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

I'd say it's strength.

It's probably a close second, but the linked skills are Strength's... umm... strength?

ES doesn't have enough good linked skills to make 1 point for 3 energy worth it. I think what someone suggested one time about offering less exhaustion for every 2-3 points in ES would be a good solution.

bungusmaximus · Nov 14, 2007, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

It's probably a close second, but the linked skills are Strength's... umm... strength?

ES doesn't have enough good linked skills to make 1 point for 3 energy worth it. I think what someone suggested one time about offering less exhaustion for every 2-3 points in ES would be a good solution.

Energy storage is one of the best primaries in the game imho, the attunements are just a bit fragile (as in: easily stripped). I always remember my ele as the caster class that can spam high damage stuff for free. Eles have Glyph of Lesser Energy, if people can't kill suff with that, people are baed. I agree on the linked skills though, they aren't too hot. Adding more however would only be nice for the sake of diversity, because GoLe is so good.

E-storage on itself only gives a sh!t load of energy, but that doesn't suck when you bring stuff like Aegis or Heal Party.

Surena · Nov 14, 2007, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

LOL yeah my necro likes to wand to get 8 adrenaline.

Oh, what a good argument. If you fail to play anything else outside of Minionmastery, well, I guess then it's a valid one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

You are wrong for a number of reasons that I doubt you even think about.

All I need to mention is the synergy between precisely the minions dying and the energy return to yourself and any other necromancers on your team.

In fact minions have become more important to necromancers now that the /Rt combo has been more or less trashed.

Are you telling me that not enough things die in PvE and you're somehow magically crippled being unable to regenerate energy? Or did you just forget to wear armour to get more blue arrows?

Learn e-management, monks, eles, mesmers have to do it too. Neither of them even has the passive management that is soul reaping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Then you didn't read my post well, because I do use paragons over MM's sometimes, I just skill them differently. As I said, my own problem. Paragon regular PvE skills are good enough. I only use paragon heroes anyway, so PvE skills are a no-no for me.

Man, I know you're one of the decent players around here. You misunderstood me. :P

Strength is fine btw as it has pretty strong skills like Bull's/Protector's

blue.rellik · Nov 14, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

LOL yeah my necro likes to wand to get 8 adrenaline.
Enough "PvE is easy, PvP is full of smartasses", it's boring and both are not true.

You're half right

Quote:

On topic, if there is no more necro healers, isn't the pet nerf overkill?
just asking don't jump on your high horses.

You heard of N/Mo?

A_Muppet · Nov 14, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Assassin nerfs; never use deadly arts, so I don't care about Impale. Black Lotus Strike: never used it before, never going to us it now. As for the Horns and Trampling ox dual attacks? Again, never use. Death Blossom ftw.

Monk: Are you surprised? I'm not.

Mesmer: Aww.

Necro: I don't spirit spam, so no comment.

Ranger: Yay for elite interrupt getting a buff.
As for barrage: oh god, now even more idiots are going to bring it.
Pet 'nerf'; kay, definately didn't see that coming, but I guess this is ANET's way of staying "Stfu with B/P groups. Srsly."

Turbobusa · Nov 14, 2007, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Oh, what a good argument. If you fail to play anything else outside of Minionmastery, well, I guess then it's a valid one.

LOL. please explain me where is the link between me saying that I can't use save yourselves, and me being bad at MM. there is none, right. Take a deep breath and stop aggressing everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

You heard of N/Mo?

Well since there is no more healers boon for them they benefit less from going /mo. They need minions aswell to keep up their energy up. Either they kill you, or you kill some of them, they WILL get an army up. Does removing pet corpses really make a difference? last time I heard they were 80al,thus they theorically don't die that fast... but again I don't HA, I don't know how fast pets die in those teams.

If you realy want to limit pet corpses maybe add a clause to comfort, like a timer on comfort animal on the res part (I know you like timers).

The spirit nerf disappoint me, although I knew it was comming. I liked going N/Rt healer sometimes.
And I already found necro to be a restricted class...

arcanemacabre · Nov 14, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Are you telling me that not enough things die in PvE and you're somehow magically crippled being unable to regenerate energy? Or did you just forget to wear armour to get more blue arrows?

Are you telling me that because MM doesn't work in every area of the game that it is without merit in the areas it does work in (and is the best build for damage mitigation through meat shields, damage-dealing, and source of constant energy for necros)? We are allowed to, ya know, change builds, in case you forgot that part.

There is clearly a difference between overrated, which they may be, and:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

They are so overrated that you'd have to be nice to call them "not too bad" when you notice how minuscule their effect really is.

...yeah.

bungusmaximus · Nov 14, 2007, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Well since there is no more healers boon for them they benefit less from going /mo. They need minions aswell to keep up their energy up. Either they kill you, or you kill some of them, they WILL get an army up. Does removing pet corpses really make a difference? last time I heard they were 80al,thus they theorically don't die that fast... but again I don't HA, I don't know how fast pets die in those teams.

Under ideal circumstances, necro's get energy from foes dying, so SR is still a very overpowered attribute

.

Zil · Nov 14, 2007, 10:21 AM // 10:21

PvE = Ursan, so please stop crying about the pet corpses.

Overall, excellent update, glad to see Izzy spit on assassins.
Kudos to Anet.

bungusmaximus · Nov 14, 2007, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zil

PvE = Ursan, so please stop crying about the pet corpses.

Bleh so when someone brings up a just complaint you just tell him to go grab Lolzpve skills? I didn't buy GW to mash Ursan Strike throughout 3 campaigns on all my characters. Let's just stick to one profession and forget all the others, since everyone uses bears. AB would look HAX though

.

Exploiting pet corpses wasn't abused too much in PvP, don't tell me the occasional thumper pet dying in HA made all the difference because I find that hard to believe. People are surprised why it's nerfed because it doesn't make any sense.

Ursan is another story, see other thread in Riverside. I hate that skill really ><.

Aerial Assault · Nov 14, 2007, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zil

Overall, excellent update, glad to see Izzy spit on assassins.
Kudos to Anet.

LOL lets see how happy you and other people like you are when everyone and their mom is running SOJ/assacaster builds , because well, they're pretty much forced to now.

RhanoctJocosa · Nov 14, 2007, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Energy storage is one of the best primaries in the game imho, the attunements are just a bit fragile (as in: easily stripped). I always remember my ele as the caster class that can spam high damage stuff for free. Eles have Glyph of Lesser Energy, if people can't kill suff with that, people are baed. I agree on the linked skills though, they aren't too hot. Adding more however would only be nice for the sake of diversity, because GoLe is so good.

E-storage on itself only gives a sh!t load of energy, but that doesn't suck when you bring stuff like Aegis or Heal Party.

I agree with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

It's probably a close second, but the linked skills are Strength's... umm... strength?

Well yeah, it's useful because of the skills it's linked to, but as a whole it's bad. ES, on the other hand, well... what bungusmaximus said. ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial Assault

LOL lets see how happy you and other people like you are when everyone and their mom is running SOJ/assacaster builds , because well, they're pretty much forced to now.

Hmmmmm, no.

Surena · Nov 14, 2007, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerial Assault

LOL lets see how happy you and other people like you are when everyone and their mom is running SOJ/assacaster builds , because well, they're pretty much forced to now.

They'll be toned down too. :-)

Aerial Assault · Nov 14, 2007, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Hmmmmm, no.

Suggest you put up a viable sin build using daggers now.

Moloch Vein · Nov 14, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Are you telling me that not enough things die in PvE and you're somehow magically crippled being unable to regenerate energy? Or did you just forget to wear armour to get more blue arrows?

No, I am telling you that the inclusion of minions boosts the energy regain capacity of the necromancer to the point where it can be incredibly more effective.

Soul Reaping and the effective use thereof _is_ the necromancer energy management. That's the way you gain energy without being so bloody "leet" and going /E GoLE or /Me AI. Well, at least some people seem to think that's real leet. I just think it's usually beyond retarded in a PvE setting.

A_Muppet · Nov 14, 2007, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

If they are gonna remove corpses from pets why don't they remove the automatic blackout when pets die too.

Try an allout beastmaster build sometime (Pet attacks pet elite, ect with 16 beast mastery) and you'll understand why. With 16 beast mastery and some pet attacks (especially Brutal Strike) a pet can do heavy damage.

Now imagine being able to insta-res that at around 60%hp with no dp in pve. THAT is why there's still the blackout.

Aerial Assault · Nov 14, 2007, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

They'll be toned down too. :-)

Yeah, they already hit deadly paradox with the nerf bat, but SOJ sin is still very much alive. As much as I hate the build, I'll probably be using it in protest for as long as this update is in effect.